I'm dismayed at some of the people on the throwing shade at as "some noise." Like, this is literally people the of mass communication, and these people are opting to side with the because apparently it turns out the are actually scary.
The ideal socialist condition would be independent communities self-governing and engaging in mutual aid. How the hell does fit that model even *remotely* better than ?

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@ssfckdt As with anything that is self-governing such as an instance, you sometimes end up in a siloed echo chamber of special.

In theory, fedi is an idea and it will have growing pains.

Understand it is still built on a system that favors white people over minorities and marginalized.

And when they point that out they are pushed down for it.

@Lockdownyourlife I'm hearing that, and I'm trying to understand it. Because it doesn't jibe with what I know about the possibilities of the technology. I worry that ultimately there are a lot of people who prefer anonymous, arbitrary content police vs. a public commons. By all theory, the public commons should be *more* diverse than the private shopping mall, not less.

It all depends on what kind of content police you have, too. In the for-profit model, you're at the whim of what makes money.

@Lockdownyourlife I heard about the cases of people being shut out, and I honestly don't comprehend why the server would have blocked people for their opinions at all. But, hopefully the increased interest in mastodon will lead to increased participation, not just on the user side but on the infrastructure side, and minimize that impact.

You're certainly not better off if it happens on, say, .

@Lockdownyourlife @ssfckdt shitposting at fags on the internet is a lot less expensive and a lot more therapeutic than paying a jew to pretend to be my friend. I understand this because I'm better than you

@s8n @ssfckdt I am sure your mother is super proud of you bro. I will let her know.

@ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife your fag buddy just blocked me because he can't take the bantz, faggot nigger

@ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife Mastodon is still private it's not "a public commons".
Someone(s) runs your instance, on some private computer(s).
Yes, it's _more_ public than twitter in a lot of very important ways, but it's still a long way from any kind of "commons" that includes robust enough inclusion mechanisms.
"it's open-source" is cool and all, but that's like bullet-point one these days on anything intended to be "secure" or "privacy-preserving" or "in the public interest", not the end-game

> Mastodon is still private it's not "a public commons".

Whether the fediverse is a commons depends how you define "commons". If you we use the criteria put forward by Elinor Ostrom for sustainable commons...

... then the fediverse is a commons made up of an interlocking complex of commons; each server, software project, and support projects (eg or operating as a commons in its own right.

@ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife


@strypey @meejah @ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife

The idea of public vs private technology favors any group of people who are more likely to have access to permanent housing, money, leisure time, and higher education, especially when it comes to running your own server instances.

@meejah @Lockdownyourlife It's a commons inasmuch as the internet is a commons since participation is not limited to large wealthy corporations. Individuals can and do and are generally free to be part of the infrastructure.

Like, the archetypal town square is made up of the people who set up shop there... it's still a commons.

Commons are defined by who they let in, not by who they exclude. It might not be what people want, but that's what it is.

@ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife Don't get me wrong: mastodon and activitypub are exciting technologies .. I just want to be fair to the large amount of other work required before we can call it "a commons".
....and I'd argue the same for "the internet": 20+ years ago, it sure seemed like it was _going_ to be a commons, but it's not. It's like considering "the mall" a commons: mostly it acts like that, but when shit goes sideways everyone is pushed outside by riot-cops. That's not a commons.

@meejah I would quickly argue that the reason the internet did not become that commons is precisely because we abandoned open collective operation to profit-oriented entities which made lots of money by 1. restricting us and 2. invading our privacy

@ssfckdt Yes, I agree that's one reason.
But did "we" abandon it, or were we told/forced to?

@meejah welllll πŸ˜‚ i certainly didn't go along willingly. But we can't all be @jeffcliff πŸ˜†

The pressure for me there came from the choices of the public, really. Like, I'm on Facebook because most people I want to stay in touch with are also on Facebook. I got on Twitter because a lot of audiences I wanted to converse with were on Twitter. They wouldn't have been my choices otherwise. Chicken/egg

@ssfckdt @jeffcliff I've never had a facebook account, but yeah that's the entire "devil's bargain" right there...

@meejah @Lockdownyourlife and the mall is not a commons. That's.... that's literally the analogy. The mall is not a commons, and neither are corporate controlled and operated fora.

@ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife (I kind of don't like analogies, but that's my fault for making one ;)

I think in this analogy, mastodon is like the cool, homebrew farmer's market down the road .. not _really_ a mall, but still has a lot of the same structural underpinnings (it's on private property, and if you want to do something besides set up a booth to sell goods/services it's likely to be a problem)

@meejah @Lockdownyourlife I think that's actually a good analogy.

In my experience the farmers market isn't even that restrictive as to who goes there. I've certainly run my own not-for-profit booth at them before. It's YMMV... but that's also apt, because if the Townsville farmers market won't let you, the Cityburg one a few miles north might.

@meejah @Lockdownyourlife I mean.... you can run your own instance on your own computer. You're not fundamentally dependent on anyone else to do it.

Can't do that with Twitter or Facebook &c, where even your own content is ultimately owned by the private entity.

What's disturbing to me is, given the choice between that power vs. being top-down controlled, freedom-seeking folx are opting for the latter.

Or the idea that, oxymoronically, having those options is somehow inherently restrictive.

@ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife "run your own instance" isn't a panacea (yes, it's cool, and yes it's better than FAANG or whatever offerings)

@meejah @Lockdownyourlife I disagree that in order for a paradigm to be an acceptable alternative to twitter and other corporate social media operations must achieve the level of a panacea.

It just has to be better.

The existing alternatives are certainly not panaceas either, so it's an unreasonable standard.

@meejah @ssfckdt 🀣🀣🀣😭😭☠️☠️

@Lockdownyourlife @ssfckdt
>Understand it is still built on a system that favors white people over minorities and marginalized.

so you're saying minorities are too dumb to figure out how fedi works?

@meowski @Lockdownyourlife i mean, oof, but, i don't really think it's a race limited thing. It's a general knowledge thing. I don't really know the ethnic demographics of mastodon, but, I will say there's certainly examples of marginalized communities coming here to chart new courses, from LGBT to Indians to Scots to you name it. Can't be for nothing.

@ssfckdt @meowski @Lockdownyourlife they don't like that elon is saying they can't brigade and crybully normal people off the internet anymore so they come here and try to do it
@ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife tbh you're on 19 levels of wokeness here i can't even follow the train of thought
@ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife oh i see you're saying yes there are marginalized people here, yea sure there are all kinds of people! fedi welcomes all. libtards, trannies, nazis, communists, foreigners, whatever you got. we'll take em.

@ssfckdt remember #libertarians are #notonyourside - they conflict with both the #left and #right - but they also align on many things, e.g. happy for decentralisation to include #socialist mutuals (but also allow the other side). However history has many socialist experiments ending in central control, i.e. not content with their own mutual, they want to force/shut down others (hint: it doesn't work, they go underground).

I just find it weird that Musk wants to make Twitter open source and connected, and that made people jump ship to the fediverse (which is open source and connected). I think the acceleration is a good thing, just strange.

@ssfckdt social media is so addictive, I'm seeing people I long respected coming out with all sorts of twaddle to justify not changing a thing about their every-waking-hour twitter fix. It's fine they want to stay, gritting unpaid for Musk's debtors & Saudi Ariabia, I just wish they didn't need to keep trying to dunk on this place to justify it.

@ssfckdt It's always only the means towards their end goals with these people. You might care about principles, they do not.

@ssfckdt "We need to be free of corporate and fascist overlords."

"But also, it needs to not take any effort on my part and also if it isn't where all the celebrities are force-fed to me, I don't like it."

@notafurry @ssfckdt I see the same thing with "privacy" -- people often _say_ they want it, but aren't willing to give up a single second of (in)convenience to have it :(

> I'm dismayed at some of the people on the #left throwing shade at #decentralization as "some #libertarian noise."

Maybe it points to something some of us have suspected all along; these people aren't on the left. They're authoritarian centrists who have done a disturbingly good job of redefining the issues that matter to them as "the left".

BTW You're new here. Welcome. This is normal. Pretty soon all these people will block you for disagreeing with them and it won't be a problem.


Concern troll:
>Understand [the Fedi] is still built on a system that favors white people over minorities and marginalized.

Case in point. This is a broad generalization about the world and everything in it. Nothing about it is specific to the 'verse or its technologies. To quote some old white guys...

"This isn't an argument! It's just contradiction!"

It's a guilt trip, and a subtle warning that you're questioning the sacred moral laws of Those Who Must Not Be Questioned.

@ssfckdt Hmm. Reading my own post again a few minutes later I'm reminded of a quote from The Big Lebowski;

"You're not wrong Walter, you're just an asshole."

Note to self; must resist my inner Walter, and be more like The Dude ;)

@ssfckdt Embrace it! Every one of the asshats that blocks you is a self-solving problem. Believe me, they're much more of a headache before they block you. I'm seriously thinking about setting up an alt account for fun shitposting on, so they've all pre-blocked it already πŸ˜†

@strypey It's because of that conflict that I find myself not even really knowing what my ideology is anymore. Because I'm a pretty strong liberal-leftist who also believes in things like debate and growth and open community and lenience. It doesn't seem to fit anywhere.

I think I just have to get on with making my own cult or something 🀀

> I think I just have to get on with making my own cult or something

"if you're in a situation like that, there's only one thing you can do

Walk into the shrink wherever you are, just walk in, say, "Shrink, you can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant", and walk out

You know, if one person, just one person, does it, they may think he's really sick and they won't take him"

"And if three people do it! Can you imagine three people walkin' in, singin' a bar of "Alice's Restaurant" and walkin' out? They may think it's an Organization!

And can you imagine fifty people a day? I said FIFTY people a day walkin' in, singin' a bar of "Alice's Restaurant" and walkin' out? Friends they may think it's a Movement, and that's what it is THE Alices's restaurant anti-massacre movement! And all you gotta do to join is to sing the next time it comes around on the guitar"

@ssfckdt @strypey If it helps, these "concern trolls" going on about "white vs marginalized" are actually quite racist. What happens as a consequence of their words, and they know it, is more persecution of minorities, and nothing else. That must be their goal, because it's blatantly obvious. Guilting white people is just inflaming "us vs them" tension making racism worse rather than ending it.

@strypey @ssfckdt Though uh, there are also a lot of "concern troll" trolls who go after any attempt to discuss injustice, accusing them of being hypocrites and joost as recist as the natzies. So you also have to be wary of arguments along the lines of "Look the minorities are racist too and that makes persecuting them okay!" But overall, you can be anti-racist while rejecting the ones trying to poison your movement to steal our attention.

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