Hidden Rules Among Classes

Attitudes of poverty, middle, & wealthy classes to money, personality, social, food, and other factors.

From “A Framework for Understanding Poverty” by Ruby K. Payne, Ph.D.


That's very interesting. Especially the Family structure row...fits a lot of my experience.

Would like to see working class in that table. Not the same as poverty or "middle"...closer to poverty but not poor...has a job but not a business or a profession.

@bhaugen Reading that, first thing that jumps out is "Some of her most vocal critics are Paul C. Gorski of George Mason University (an ally in TT’s equity work)..."

GMU is noncredible:

> George Mason University is a Virginia-based public university near Washington, D.C. A "magnet for right-wing money" and heavily Koch-funded, it is notable for hosting over 40 libertarian research centers and affiliates including the Institute for Humane Studies and the Mercatus Center.


Ok, thanks for the feedback. 'twas the first thing I found re Payne looking for something I could read immediately...

@bhaugen There's some cogent criticism. I suspect payne's work may not be rigorously grounded in research. Then again, neither is much of what she's attempting to displace.

It's an interesting topic to me. I'll keep reading. Thanks for posting.

@bhaugen @dredmorbius You can't really do that.. They are two different views..

Working class/Upper class is about power.

Middle/Wealthy is about money..

@bhaugen Iron law of wages. Working class tends to poverty in a private-property based system.

Working class is a different mindset, though. My family went thru subsistence farmer to poverty to working class. Each very different.

@dredmorbius One that made me go "wow" was Food: Quantity, Quality, Presentation.

Quantity and quality are a given, making presentation a relevant variable.


This tracks with my awareness, though I don't know many actual wealthy people except from books.

It's interesting to see there that a lot of the modern "conservative movement" (but also liberal-centrist) values like self-sufficiency, self-improvement, emphasis on education, are actually *middle-class* values. Both upper and lower classes put much more of their identity into "belonging".. It's only the middle class that feels it both can and has to strive to achieve lonely success.


Also it suggests that ideological libertarians and Austrian economists are only ever at best middle-class right wing, while the true upper class right are the paleoconservatives, concerned primarily with maintaining tradition and "keeping out those who don't belong".

And hence the sneer of "NEOconservatives". Those who came to either money or ideology recently, and so don't truly belong in the grand old circle.

Trump definitely doesn't belong in that circle. Money still too new.

@natecull Libertarianism is an ideological control tool of the oligarchy. They impose it on the management / managment-aspirant class.


I'm not entirely sure that this three-part division holds for all cultures, though. Been watching more Chinese wuxia (stories written in the 1960s Hong Kong context, so fairly modern) and trying to parse just how the concepts of 'jianghu' and 'pai' work. As I understand it, the jianghu is the 'world of the commoners' rather than of the nobles, and the pai are... self-help organizations, including all of temples/churches,, wealthy families, schools, guilds, societies, militias...


Many of these organizations on the cusp between legal and illegal. Not quite either.

The point being that the Chinese jianghu is a place where pure merit and hard work rules, and any class can alter its status (so... Middle class in the Western style class analysis) yet.. Also very, very much obsessed with lineage, honour, exclusion, and other "upper class" themes.

I think we had a Western jianghu in the 18th-20th C fraternal-societies networks... but we lost it.


The corporations, the police/military, the churches, and criminal gangs are all that remains of our Western jianghu now, but they're not really the same at all. Not much sense of honour or tradition as core values. So the upper class way of life seems more and more alien and bizarre to the rest of us. Aristocrats in a world that's nominally rejected them, who have to hide yet have been successful in controlling more and more power.

I don't see this tension sustaining itself.


Some trades, yeah, but less with the swordplay and the extreme cults of obedience to authority and ancient lineage within the group.

maybe legal and medical professions have their own assassins, it's probably likely. And I wouldn't want to cross the IEEE.

@natecull Well, Europe DID have its age of chivalry, but traded that in for gunpowder, bombards, blunderbusses, and muskets somewhat more rapidly than the Han did.

Observation I've seen that China's foundation in ancient massive hydroengineering projects and communally farmed rice contributed to greater bureaucracy and social cohesion.

@natecull There's some interesting stuff just outside the mainstream on class, power, worldviews, manipulation, and more. Charles Perrow's work, discussed here, is part of that:


Very cross-discipline: sociology, poli sci, econ, psych, cultural & ethnic studies, religion, philosophy.

There's a strong overlap with your own cult background.

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