@wilw I’m so sorry. Please find an instance with a better admin. Mastodon is better with you in it.

@fraying @wilw Yes! People have been talking about instances specifically for celebrities and/or brands - maybe that's actually what it takes to make Mastodon work for everybody.

@tsturm @fraying Are celebrities not people too? Are they destined always to be treated differently because of _how others treat them_? That's just wrong, imo. If Mastodon can't work for a person who wants to just be a part of a community, but who happens to be famous, then it doesn't work for anyone.

@suw Celebrity is SCALE. Wilw's following here is modest, about 4k. On Twitter and FB, celeb accounts have tens to hundreds of millions of followers, even billions. That's mind-warping, literally.

(Three books ever have produced over a billion copies: the Bible, Quran, and Mao''s Little Red Book.)

It's powerful when the information flows /out/. It's /crippling/ when it flows /back/.

And infrastructure & admin also take hits.

They''re human.

But yes, it's different.

@tsturm @fraying

@dredmorbius @tsturm @fraying And if a social network can't cope with that, it won't cope with concerted attacks on minority groups, or propaganda, or any one of a million other things that have made FB and Twitter awful. The world is asymmetrical now, and we don't have the tools that we desperately need to deal with that asymmetry.

@suw @dredmorbius @fraying Federation might help solve some of these problems by allowing networks to be split - it’s a powerful deterrent to keep admins vigilant. This is exactly how Fidonet operated back in the BBS days.

I was a Fidonet echo moderator and I had the power to severe a BBS from the entire network if a single user misbehaved & the admin didn’t intervene. It was a very big stick to swing.

@tsturm @dredmorbius @fraying yeah, or it can allow instances where hate festers. if you admins aren't vigilant or if the bullies don't care, there's no positive impact of federation.

@suw Those canbe isolated.

This is an epidemiology / public heath problem.

Vigelance, monitoring, hygiene, vector control, innoculation, treatment, quarantine & isolation.

Admins and devs are asleep at the wheel.

@tsturm @fraying

@dredmorbius @tsturm @fraying Humans aren't a disease. Seriously, I've been having these conversations for nearly 15 years, Derek for way longer. Humans aren't diseases and communities are complicated, and if the makers of Mastodon don't get that, it's doomed.

@suw Information is a disease.

Or rather, diseases are information flows leading to population-based dysfunctions.

@tsturm @fraying

@dredmorbius Hey doc. Seems like you've got a metaphor that really works for you there. That's cool. It doesn't work for me, tho, and I've kinda gotten swept up in your replies here, so if you wouldn't mind, please leave me off of this chain, okay?

For those interested, the idea's not mine, I just stole it:

> There are really only three characteristics of an epidemic disease – Clustering, Spread, and Transmission.

This appears in disease, violence, propaganda, fads & fashions, innovation, culture.

It's not that information is a disease. It's that infectious, and environmentally-transmitted diseases, are information.


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