@wilw I’m so sorry. Please find an instance with a better admin. Mastodon is better with you in it.

@fraying @wilw Yes! People have been talking about instances specifically for celebrities and/or brands - maybe that's actually what it takes to make Mastodon work for everybody.

@tsturm @fraying Are celebrities not people too? Are they destined always to be treated differently because of _how others treat them_? That's just wrong, imo. If Mastodon can't work for a person who wants to just be a part of a community, but who happens to be famous, then it doesn't work for anyone.

@suw Celebrity is SCALE. Wilw's following here is modest, about 4k. On Twitter and FB, celeb accounts have tens to hundreds of millions of followers, even billions. That's mind-warping, literally.

(Three books ever have produced over a billion copies: the Bible, Quran, and Mao''s Little Red Book.)

It's powerful when the information flows /out/. It's /crippling/ when it flows /back/.

And infrastructure & admin also take hits.

They''re human.

But yes, it's different.

@tsturm @fraying

@dredmorbius @tsturm @fraying And if a social network can't cope with that, it won't cope with concerted attacks on minority groups, or propaganda, or any one of a million other things that have made FB and Twitter awful. The world is asymmetrical now, and we don't have the tools that we desperately need to deal with that asymmetry.

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@suw What Federation offers, specifically, is compartmentalisation.

Booting wilsw /for specious complaints made against him/ is a pathology, though an understandable response for an admin with few other options.

Better, IMO, would be to reach out to wilw, say, "hey, this is a problem and is overwhelming us right now", and suggest, say, freezing his account for a few days whilst to storm blows over and something else can be sorted. It's likely good for general calm.

@tsturm @fraying

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@dredmorbius @suw @tsturm if he’d been doing anything wrong, sure. But he wasn’t.

@fraying Sometimes, if a problem /concerns/ a specific element, even if that element is /at no fault/, you address it first.

This isn't punishment, it's tretment & resolution.

Also; this process happens /all the time/ in tech, addressing scale. But usually with far more caapitalisation. Most instances are one-person shops. A few have a handful of mods.

@suw @tsturm

@fraying @dredmorbius @suw @tsturm False. He (or a follower) was reporting anyone who mentioned his name, not just trolls and harassers. And there were groups of people leaving the instance solely to get away from him. Sometimes a person of notoriety are simply not wanted in a space where part of the user base doesn't want them, despite that person on their best behavior. (How many house parties do you think want a cop to attend?)

@fraying @dredmorbius @suw @tsturm It is not easy to manage a crowd. Part of administration is knowing which users are welcome and which will cause problems, and that requires making judgement calls that will not always please everybody.

Wil is a big boy, and he'll move on to a new instance or a new network. We can get past this, too.

@adriaanp @fraying @dredmorbius @suw @tsturm Arrogant of Wil to come into this instance and try to mold it more to his liking? Yes, it is.

@Down10 @fraying @dredmorbius @suw @tsturm ahh yes, twisting words to fit your narrative. Proofs my point.

@suw The long-term accommodation is probably celeb instances, individual or "hotels", geared up to deal with this, in code, metal, staff, training, and relations with other instances.

But that transition should be far better managed than this has been.

The other attacks you mention -- propaganda & bots, also concern me. This seems a dry run, or wet run, of just that.

@tsturm @fraying

@dredmorbius @tsturm @fraying Again, no. If there aren't the tools to deal with celebs there aren't the tools to deal with any asymmetric attack. It's that simple.

@suw If you think I'm arguing against that point, I'm not.

Though a difference is that celeb attacks have a specific target, easily identified, requiring protection.

Disruption attacks are general. They require identification, usually through cluster- and network-identification tools. Finding the social graph, which may not be directly apparent or manifested as, say, Mastodon follows.

Text & timing analysis often reveal these.

Then there's response & countermeasure.

@tsturm @fraying

@dredmorbius @tsturm @fraying No. Just no. Why should the victim of bullying be told to shush? And Wil's fame is in many ways incidental, because it's very easy to whip up a asymmetrical attack on a non-celeb these days, and that requires the same skills to manage as managing celebs.

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mastodon.cloud

Generalistic and moderated instance.