@BoilingSteam I really thought the Index would be that stand-alone product. But I guess they misjudged the market when the development of the Index started. Maybe now they have learned from the relative success of the Quest.

@povoq
The Index is kind of stupid, the market for 1000 USD headsets requiring a 1000 USD computer to run can be counted on a single hand or something. I guess they don't care at all about sales. As for a Quest-like device, probably too early. Maybe in a couple of years you'll have something a lot more impressive, and cheaper in that form factor.

@boilingsteam @povoq yet it sold out like hotcakes and in deficit right now.

@hj @povoq
1) in deficit = there's not enough capacity to meet the demand, most likely. They don't make these kind of headsets by the millions in the first place. 2) There's always going to be a large amount of people who are early adopters no matter what, do not assume the market is huge based on such people. It's not the first time we see that.

@hj @povoq
As an example of 2), the WiiU sold pretty well in the first few months and then pretty much nobody bought it after that. Early adopters tell you nothing about the real market.

@boilingsteam @povoq point is - sales exceeded VALVe's expectations - they didn't think that many people would buy such an expensive headset, even with HL:Alyx being the "killer app".
@boilingsteam @povoq

can't really tell how much EXACTLY they expected to sell, but they had to re-stock several times.

https://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/superdata-xr-update
https://www.roadtovr.com/valve-index-sold-out-stock-half-life-alyx/
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/01/report-valve-index-sales-more-than-doubled-amid-half-life-alyx-reveal/
https://uploadvr.com/index-preorders-sold-out/

I think superdata has all the data but it's behind paywall or something. Also not sure about "early adopters", since it's not the first VR HMD out there and some people myself included got valve index while already having other headset (i have og vive)

@hj @povoq
"people myself included got valve index while already having other headset (i have og vive)" -> I can already tell you are not representative of anyone at large 😁 This being said it's good you have several headsets, it makes it possible for you to compare them

@boilingsteam @povoq point is - people ARE willing to pay for pricey equipment, and index is one of the top-tier headsets right now, and given that you DON'T actually need a 1000$ PC to use it (i ran index with 5yo higher-tier GPU). Given that Index is a top-tier and that there are other, cheaper options available, high price tag makes sense.

as for quest - it's good idea in general, but i feel it's very limited by design, and even further limited by its tracking and facebook policies. and yet people are buying those as well. even for (imo) high price tag compared to its potential.

as for owning multiple headsets - this is a reminder that HMD sales do not account for second-hand market of those, since actual early adopters are probably upgrading to index/pimax/quest, their older headsets are being sold or given away.
@BoilingSteam I don't think a Quest like device is necessarily so far away. The new Qualcomm dev kits are quite production ready and in theory strong enough to run current desktop like VR games (due to eye tracking).

I think the bigger problem is that the Steam ecosystem is so tied to x86. Technically a top end AMD APU might be doable as a small belt pack, but will not be cheap or would solve the inside out tracking that Valve doesn't have (yet?).

@povoq
Not just the whole Steam ecosystem - pretty much all big game development is tied to x86 architecture, and powerful GPU cards are tied to x86 as well (as far as I know there are no drivers for GPUx outside of x86 for current GPUs whether it's AMD or Nvidia).

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